George Colligan on Music and Life

Legendary Jazz pianist/composer George Colligan.

By NOAH BECKER May 12, 2025

We've published a few music articles in Whitehot Magazine. As Jazz goes, drummer Rodney Green and artist/pianist Jason Moran have been written about in this magazine in past years. In this case, I caught up with virtuoso Jazz pianist/composer George Colligan. I've known George for many years, originally through my NYC Jazz bassist friend David Ephross. Also my paintings have appeared on George's album covers. George appeared on my album Where We Are in 2000, which included guitar star Kurt Rosenwinkel. Since meeting him in NYC in the 1990s, I've watched Colligan's extensive career and his own recordings and tours expand internationally. I wanted to catch up in the following interview for Whitehot Magazine...

NOAH BECKER: You’ve worked with an astonishing array of Jazz legends — what are some of the most memorable lessons you’ve learned from collaborating with artists like Jack DeJohnette, Buster Williams, and Lenny White?

GEORGE COLLIGAN: Oh gosh, there’s so many lessons from the people you’ve mentioned… I mean, in a way, they were not only my employers and collaborators, but my mentors as well. I suppose it’s common now for music students to do a master’s degree or do a Doctor of Musical Arts or something like that, but I have been extremely lucky that my school, after graduating from Peabody Conservatory of Music, was getting to play with a whole host of amazing musicians. My musical education as a Jazz pianist, I would say was primarily on the band stand, as well as listening to recordings, and hearing musicians play in Baltimore and Washington DC. I think this is an important thing to consider: it isn’t just getting called for gigs and getting to do tours and recordings and so forth- the real gift of getting to work with great musicians is to be able to learn from them. It can be learning through observing, and it can also be learning through discussion but observing and listening…and trial and error… and failing sometimes! It’s all part of the experience.
 
I first played with Buster Williams in 1995. I didn’t officially join his band in a more consistent way until 2001, that was when I also got to start playing with Lenny White. Getting to play with both Buster Williams and Lenny White for many years really taught me how to listen and how to swing and how to deal with the unexpected. Buster is a particularly wise musician; the way he interprets music is totally unique and the rhythmic lock with Buster and Lenny is really something special. I’m grateful that they enjoyed playing with me; we really developed a great connection over the course of… I guess it’s been about 25 years… playing with those guys made me realize that listening to others on the bandstand more than yourself is the name of the game. And I think one reason musicians maybe don’t connect or maybe don’t play musically or whatever can be traced to an inability to listen very carefully while still being conscious enough of your own playing to function. It is somewhat of a coordination in your mind, but I really believe that if you go into a musical situation and try to listen first, and THEN think about your own playing, one can be much more successful… because the context will always be there. I know this is cliché, but Jazz is really a musical conversation and to have a real conversation, there is communication through listening and reacting. It isn’t about just playing your licks or playing what you practiced it must be in the context; otherwise, it just doesn’t work. But if you can figure that out, this is where the magic happens where it feels right.
 
Buster and Lenny are from the same circles as Jack DeJohnette; in a way, playing with them prepared me for my work with DeJohnette. It was such a dream to play with Jack. It was so easy, because he also is on that wavelength… he listens to you as much as you listen to him, and he also supports everything you do, and he sets up an environment where you can never fail. He goes with you no matter what. My first gig with Jack was a week at Birdland in 2010, was right after my first son Liam was born. I was very excited about doing the gig, and I wanted to do a good job… and I wasn’t sure exactly how to approach it. What ended up working for me is that I decided to pretend that I was in the audience, but I just had a very good seat!... which happened to be in front of the piano on the stage; so that made me listen the way one listens when you’re not on stage and it made me totally not self-conscious at all, and it took away any of the nervousness or anxiety about whether I was doing a good job or not. I felt very free and easy with everything I played, because it was really all about listening and finding the context and adding something to it, rather than trying to impress people with technique or practice licks or stuff like that.
 
I could certainly go on and on about all the things that I learned playing with them not just about music but about life. The real master musicians, when they play, they are more comfortable on the bandstand than anywhere else! That is where they thrive… and I think as Jazz musicians, we need to realize that, and really celebrate our time on the bandstand, and to not see it as a place for showing off, or trying to be competitive, or other ulterior motives. We need to focus on the conversation that’s being had at that moment and above all to listen. I really think that’s why, in my early years on the scene, I was hired by Gary Bartz- because he liked the way I listened and comped for him. There are many videos online now of Gary Bartz talking about how important it is to listen. He’s saying that Miles Davis would hire musicians, and he would have them come to the gig and sit in the audience… and they would get bugged because they wanted to play!; Miles would say “if you don’t know how to listen, I don’t wanna play with you!”

George Colligan

 
Your latest album The Phyllis Wheatley Project dives into historical and literary themes — what inspired you to center this project around Wheatley’s legacy, and how did it shape your compositional approach?

I sort of discovered Phyllis Wheatley‘s poetry by accident. There’s a lot of things in our society that distract us from important historical and cultural phenomena. Certainly, there’s a lot of African American history that is not taught in schools. Yes, there are a lot of resources online, but sometimes you don’t really know where to look. When I discovered Phyllis Wheatley, and started reading some of her poetry, I thought to myself, “wow this stuff would be amazing with melody and harmony... her poetry sort of has a built-in rhythm of its own that would be very easy to set to music.”

I applied for a faculty development grant from Portland State University. Musicians and artists know that applying for grants these days is very competitive, and you never know whether you’re going to get the grant, so I was pleasantly surprised when I won the grant. Then I said to myself, “well, I guess I have to do the work now,”… But in all honesty, it was very easy to set her poetry to music. I think it took me a couple days to get all the compositional stuff together. I was fortunate to have some talented young musicians in Portland to help me realize the compositions. I think my ace in the hole a vocalist named Zyanna Melada, who is originally from Portland; she was one of my students at Portland State University. She is extremely talented but above all she has an incredible work ethic. To sing these songs, you have to really study these poems, and it’s a lot of heavy lifting for a vocalist. Zyanna was likely the only vocalist in the area that would’ve been able to pull this off. Without her, I think the project wouldn’t have taken shape at all. I was very happy with how the recording came out and I’ve done several other collaborations with Zyanna, but this one I think just from a technical standpoint of having to learn all that poetry, which is almost like Shakespearean language… it’s late 18th century language, and some of it has sort of obscure literary and religious references. I believe the album was well received and hopefully has helped to create some awareness about Phillis Wheatley who was the first published African American poet in the United States.

As a multi-instrumentalist, how do your experiences playing drums and trumpet influence your work as a pianist and composer?
 
Well, I don’t think as a lifestyle being a multi-instrumentalist is for everyone. I do think that the Jazz ethos is different from the classical ethos, where classical musicians tend to focus on their instrument only: for example, pianists learn Chopin, they learn Mozart, piano pieces… every instrument works on their own repertoire. In Jazz, we are ALL working on Charlie Parker. We are ALL working on Thelonious Monk. We are all working on John Coltrane, we all need to know about Max Roach. We all need to know about Dave Holland. We all need to know about Kurt Rosenwinkel. We all need to know about Clifford Brown, etc. and this is to be able to speak to each other on the band stand. If you’re a young trumpeter, and maybe you know something about Wynton Marsalis or Lee Morgan, but you’ve never really listened to Elvin Jones or Billy Higgins, and you wouldn’t be able to discern Ray Brown from Scott LaFaro, then you’re going to have a hard time having reference points when playing Jazz music.
 
I think that all Jazz musicians need to know something about what every instrument does in a Jazz setting. I often ask students to list their top five favorite musicians on their respective instrument, but then I ask them to name their top five musicians on all the other instruments also. For example, if you are young saxophonist, and you can list your top five saxophonists, I say, “well, who are your top five trumpet players? Who are your top five pianists?” And usually, these days students don’t really have an answer because of Spotify, which only lists the main artist of the song, and doesn’t list the side persons. So, unfortunately, kids these days are not really getting the proper information as to who is on the recordings, and so they don’t have good reference points. I will say that because I am also a drummer (I played drums before I played piano), I have an easier time connecting with the rhythm section, and specifically the drummer, than perhaps a pianist who started as a classical musician… and maybe they don’t really understand the language of the drums. In my improv class at Portland State, I make all the students sit at a drum kit and do basic things like swing on the ride cymbal and do two and four on the hi- hat and things like that and do some basic African rhythms and polyrhythms and the like, because I think that rhythm and specifically the language of the DRUMS is one of the distinguishing factors in Jazz music.

Pianist George Colligan

You spent 15 years in New York (where I first met you) and now teach at Portland State University. How has the shift from New York’s Jazz scene to Portland’s academic and creative environment impacted your music?

New York is still, as Benny Golson said, the Jazz Mecca. I know New York has changed a lot since the 1990s, but it is still a thriving Jazz scene, and there’s more Jazz musicians and clubs in New York than anywhere else. I miss New York in a lot of ways; the level of musicianship is extremely high. Every time I go back to play, I feel challenged and stimulated and inspired.

Portland Oregon has a Jazz scene that, I always say, punches above its weight, so to speak. But if I’m being totally honest, there just isn’t any comparison at all. There are some good players and there are a few places to play. They used to be more, and I’m told that many years ago it was a thriving scene… but there’s just no way that you can compare the two cities. I’m very grateful that we have the 1905 Jazz Club in Portland, which I consider to be very much like a New York style Jazz club. And certainly, I would like to take a little bit of credit for some of the young players who have come out of Portland State University and are populating the Jazz scene in Portland and I am certainly very proud of them. I’ve tried to bring some of the New York attitude to the Portland Jazz scene. Unfortunately, I just don’t think that Jazz music is in the culture here in Oregon the way it is in New York or on the East Coast… and some other places in the United States and the world. There are some fans, true. There are some good players and it’s not a wasteland, but it’s not New York and that’s really all I can say.  

Your blog Jazztruth has become a respected voice in the Jazz community. What motivated you to start writing it, and how has it evolved over time?

Unfortunately, my blog is now defunct… it kind of died. When my second child was born, I just didn’t have the time to devote to it. It came about because I felt like there was a void in Jazz writing where it seems as though most of the writing was being done by writers who were not musicians, and maybe didn’t have the same relationship with the music that musicians do. I mean, I’m not saying that I’m a great writer and I’m also not saying that all musicians can write about Jazz better than a Jazz writer. I mean, there are some very good Jazz writers are very knowledgeable, but I felt as though there was some aspects of the music that were not really having exposure, because certain aspects of Jazz that happen on the band stand are hard to understand if you’ve never actually experienced it for yourself. 
 
I really enjoyed writing that blog and it did last for several years and the blog certainly went through some controversies. I always try to be very fair and balanced, and I never really wanted to create controversy for controversy’s sake, and my goal was often to celebrate musicians that were critically overlooked. I wanted to have interviews with musicians where they felt comfortable talking to another musician, in the same way that Art Taylor’s “Notes and Tones” is interviews with musicians that he knew and they felt comfortable speaking to him about topics that maybe they wouldn’t feel as comfortable talking to someone who isn’t a musician.
 
Also, this isn’t to say that musician writers are always perfect. There are a few who are active today who, when I read what they write. I wonder if they’ve been smoking something, because their opinions are so off-the-wall, and I feel like there is a desire to be negative for negativity’s sake, or just to get attention. Like I said, my goal with Jazztruth was to celebrate underrated musicians, and I think I did that to some extent.

You’ve recorded on over 130 albums as a sideman and released 37 as a leader — what’s the difference in mindset when you’re supporting someone else’s vision versus leading your own?
 
There are big differences… some of those are just logistical; if I’m the leader, then I’m responsible for a lot of things and usually it’s my compositions, or I’ve selected the tunes and maybe I’m also responsible for all the monetary aspects of the performance of the recording… and I’m in a leadership role. However, all the fundamental principles of playing Jazz which I previously talked about still apply so I don’t necessarily see it as “I’m the band leader, and everyone else is supposed to support me and serve me” and that sort of thing… like it isn’t a selfish thing; it’s still about listening, and in a way I don’t necessarily approach it any differently from being a side person. I mean, to me, at the highest level, all music is about collaboration. So, if I’m leading the gig, yes, we may be playing my compositions, which I find very satisfying, but I still want whoever else is on the bandstand to feel like they can contribute… like they’re being heard… like they have a chance to shine… and that’s really important to me. I don’t want it to be all about me.
 
I want the other musicians to contribute and honestly, I think this is why Miles Davis‘s famous groups were so amazing, because he recognized this. He hired the best musicians and let them interpret the music rather than try to control them. I think this is one of the big lessons that I’ve gathered from all the musicians that I played with who also played with Miles Davis- Buster Williams, Lenny White, Gary Thomas, Gary Bartz, John Scofield, Jack DeJohnette… all these people played with Miles and so I think they approached collaboration in this way. It’s more about letting people play how they play and making music that way, rather than being too particular and telling somebody,” I want you to play like this” or “I want you to play like that…” I mean, I think Miles understood that there was only so much he could say to a drumming genius like Tony Williams; having Tony Williams in the band was not about controlling Tony Williams, it was about letting Tony Williams lead the music into these different directions and that’s what made that music so special. So again, at the highest level, I don’t think Jazz is about what tunes are being played or who is the leader; I think it has to do with whether the musicians are all listening to each other and letting the music go where it wants to go.

Pianist/composer George Colligan

With your background in both performance and education, what do you see as the most crucial skill young Jazz musicians need to develop today?
 
I know I’ve talked to a lot about listening and that would probably be the most important thing. It’s twofold: Jazz musicians or Jazz students who want to be Jazz musicians should be listening to recordings and doing their research. I think they are very confused because of Spotify and YouTube, and there’s so much information out there-probably too much information- and they just don’t know where to start and they get easily distracted by things that are considered hip or where somebody is considered very hot right now, but whether they’ll be important in 10 or 20 years remains to be seen. So, there’s the research aspect and having a broad spectrum of music to draw on, but then there’s also being able to listen in the moment and react in a way that makes the music better. Listening is always the solution.
 
You’ve received several prestigious grants and awards in recent years — how have these recognitions supported your artistic goals, and what projects have they helped bring to life?
 
I mentioned the faculty development grant which helped to make the Phyllis Wheatley project come to life. I also got a South Arts grant which helped me tour my Theoretical Planets group. We did a tour of Oregon in California and I also got a Regional Arts and Culture Council grant for the Theoretical Planets group, and I got another Regional Arts and Culture Council grant to do a recording with a group called Fredson the Jeffy, which was kind of a quasi-classical Jazz group which featured Lisa Lipton on clarinet and Micah Hummel on drums. We had some pretty off-the-wall compositions.
 
It’s kind of a rough time for grants right now due to our current government situation so I’m hoping that it won’t get any worse.

Pianist/composer George Colligan

 
Can you share a moment in your career where a collaboration or performance radically changed your perspective on music?
 
There are so many great moments of collaboration over the past decades. I will say that recently we invited saxophonist Melissa Aldana to perform at Portland State. I hadn’t really played with Melissa before and before we did the concert, we played a warm-up song in her masterclass; I was so struck with how much space she left in her solos! Getting back to this idea of listening, one of the things that sometimes students miss is the importance of space and letting the music breathe. Her approach to space was so interesting that it really made me play much differently than I had expected to play. 
 
Another musician who uses space in an amazing way is Gary Thomas the saxophonist… he’s probably one of my biggest musical influences. When I first started playing with Gary in Baltimore in the 90s, sometimes he would leave so much space I thought maybe he was mad at me or something! But it actually made me listen more, because if you’re just playing with sort of run on sentences, it’s very easy to just zone out- but when you leave space properly, it can create suspense in the in the music, where you are sort of waiting for the next thing…you don’t know what it’s going to be…. and it just creates a lot of great musical tension; that’s where the interest lies.
 
Looking ahead, what musical or creative challenges are you most excited to explore in the coming years?
 
I’m taking a sabbatical from Portland State for about 15 months. I will have a lot of free time to do all the things that I normally do anyway -write music, play concerts, travel, record, etc. and I’m really looking forward to having that time. I had built up some momentum in my career before the pandemic, and unfortunately, the pandemic kind of killed that momentum. I have not really been able to do as much as a band leader as I would have liked. I’m hoping to get back to Europe and do more as a leader and collaborate with musicians that I enjoy. I’ve had some health challenges this year, and I’m optimistic that having some time off will help to have better health outcomes and to focus on my sanity as it were. I will say that a musician’s work is never done, and I still have a lot of musical ambitions and goals and, regardless of my advanced age, I’m hoping that I can keep improving and keep playing and keep writing and keep looking for those yet to be discovered notes and tones that are waiting to be heard. WM